(originally published in the Stony Brook Press, December 10, 1997)

Interview By Stephen Preston

A few weeks ago, Press reporter Stephen Preston held an in-depth conversation with Shirley Strum Kenny, the President of Stony Brook. Here is the interview, in its entirety (well, not really, some of the duller parts were snipped)
 

Q: If you get accepted by the University of Texas, when would you take that position?
A: Whoever the new president is will come in July 1.

Q: So you'll be here in the spring?
A: I will definitely be here.

Q: What do you think your chances are of getting that job?
A: Who knows? Who knows? There's also the question of which job I would pick if I was offered that job...

Q: I got the impression that they wouldn't put you on the list unless you promised them you'd take the job if you were offered it.
A: Not true. No such decision.

Q: So which one do you think you would take?
A: Who knows? Who knows? That's not something I can comment on. I think you have read what I said about the whole situation, which is that I have turned down everybody who has come to me to ask me to be a candidate. Texas is my home. It's where I went to school. It's where I got my commitment to public education as my life's mission, and that's a very different situation. So I am talking to them.

Q: Do you think spending three years here is a short commitment? Do you think students or faculty would be unhappy that you're only here for a short time?
A: Apparently you wouldn't. [Laughs.] This is my fourth year, not my third year.

Q: Would you bring anyone from here with you?
A: This discussion is totally premature because I have...

Q: The interview will be in two weeks...
A: Sometime in December.

Q: So it's soon, and not totally premature.
A: ...

Q: Why exactly do you think you were picked for the [Computer Associates Board] position?
A: I think I was picked because they were looking for someone with my credentials. I actually got that job before I came to Stony Brook. I think it was my qualifications, the recognized importance of having an educational leader on that board -- which many, many boards do. University presidents often serve on corporate boards and it is, I think, for that reason. Not only experience in terms of being a CEO, if you will, which is what a University President is, but also because of the educational component.

Q: What sort of qualifications do you feel you have...
A: Those I just mentioned.

Q: Just being a University president, but...
A: And a CEO of a large organization.

Q: But you weren't involved in the computer industry before.
A: No. Board members do not tend to be, for any corporation, people involved in that business. If they were involved in another corporation, that would be perceived as a conflict of interest. They are there for other skills. For example, they are often people knowledgeable about finance, lawyers, that sort of thing. They are looking for other perspectives that they can bring to the board. But they would not be people who are in the same industry. Internal directors from the company, and there are always several, have that expertise in the industry.

Q: Do you think Charles Wang had any plans to get involved in Stony Brook or make donations to Stony Brook before he invited you?
A: He was already making donations to Stony Brook. Most of Mr. Wang's philanthropy has been anonymous. He is a very philanthropic man. Take a couple of the other projects he's working on now: one is that he has set up the systems for a national search to find missing children. That search has discovered a number of missing children who were not found on the backs of milk cartons. For example, I heard about how, just a week ago, a child, who had been missing for seven years was found and returned to its parents. A number of them have been found. Another thing he has been involved in is working in China with doctors who do facial surgery for children with deformed faces so that they can be like normal children and live normal lives. He does a great deal of philanthropy.

Q: Do you think he has specific plans for collaborations between Stony Brook and Computer Associates, the sort of projects where faculty here are actually doing research on his products?
A: He has given money, equipment, etc. for programs here. I think you're way off the track when you think there's some kind of plot. He can hire from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, NYU; you name it. His company of nine thousand people is dependent on Stony Brook students; it is very important to Stony Brook students to be able to get those jobs, because his company is very highly regarded. Somebody's story made it sound like a sweat factory; it has actually been noted in one of the business magazines one of the top companies in the world.

Q: I heard about that. He got a high rating in one, but I did hear a lot of stories in Newsday suggesting that the conditions were as I described
A: How old were those stories?

Q: A couple years old.
A: Well, I think that's odd because, for the last couple of years, he has been ranked, nationally, either first or second&endash;not him, Computer Associates&endash;as one of the best companies to work for. Outstanding child care facility, outstanding athletic facilityŠso I don't think [chuckle] it's slave labor that's being hired in that company. People are very eager to get those jobs, and if our students can get them it is a real coup, and a real plus for them.

Q: I had asked you before, and you said there were no actual plans to implement the software incubator, but you were hoping something would come up?
A: There were no completed plans.

Q: The Statesman told me that Charles Wang has first revealed to them that there was a plan for a software incubator.
A: Charles mentioned it when he came here as a speaker, but no plans have been completed yet. So, when they were -- will -- when they are, we'll have a press release about it, but it's not going to be soon.

Q: You asked them not to run what they had.
A: I don't have a story yet.

Q: But what I've heard from them is that they had some information, and they wanted to do a story on it, and you asked them not to.
A: I told them that we have not completed plans for it, just as I have just told you. Obviously, they can do whatever they want, but I don't know how they can get the information [giggle] because it doesn't exist yet, that's what I told them.

Q: Who's involved in the preliminary discussions for the incubator?
A: I am, the Dean of Engineering is -- it's no mystery. The plan has not been completed yet, so we do not know the shape so that we can give an accurate picture. We have done a lot of talking about it, and there will be a story soon. There's just not a story yet.

Q: Computer Associates will contribute to this?
A: Well, I hope so.

Q: Do you think that they will?
A: I think that they're interested, but we have not developed an agreement on our request to them for what we would like them to do. It will be, I think, terrific. We have the high tech incubator, as you know, and that has spawned a number of companies that have settled on Long Island. It's terrific, because they can start before they would be able to start up if they didn't have the incubator. This would do the same for the software industry. If a person has a product, and wants to start a company for it, this would enable him or her to do it at a price that is affordable.

Q: It's hard to understand why Computer Associates would want to help to develop new software companies. One would think that Computer Associates would then have to compete with them.
A: No, no, no, no! Different software companies do very different products. Computer Associates does business products for major business, that is their scope. If you look atŠwell, it depends on what company you're talking about. Microsoft does other kinds of things, a broader array than Computer Associates. But the people who are starting up with new products -- it may be an educational product, it may be something tied to the Net, it may be any time of product. The advantage to that for Computer Associates and all the other industries on Long Island, and the advantage for Stony Brook, is that as the development of new companies, new industries, come here, the Island's economy gets stronger, and that's good for everybody.

Q: What concern does Computer Associates have about that? They're a global entity.
A: They have the same concern they have about children smiles, or finding lost childrens [sic], or any other Civic issue.

Q: Yes, but it's still hard to understand why they'd want to help other software companies which wouldn't neccessarily compete with them, but could possibly compete with them. Theoretically someone else might want to go into the business market. Would Computer Associates try to block them out of it?
A: No. No. Computer Associates started with four young people starting up a company. Believe me, Charles resonates to what is the American dream. To the fact that if you got enough brains and enough energy and a chance, you can make it in America. That is the story of Charles. That's the story of America. That's how it happened. That's why, for example, the top producer of CEOs of major corporations in this country is CUNY. It's not Harvard, it's not Yale, it's those people who got a chance to do something. That's what it's about. You see what happened in Silicon Valley, which also has many, many companies. You see what happened in the Boston Corridor, or the North Carolina Triangle, or, for that matter, in Texas. It's all connected with having very powerful intellectual engines, which is, in this case, Stony Brook, Brookhaven, Cold Spring Harbor, and then the opportunity for companies to get started, that strengthens the entire Island. I think you're making the mistake of thinking that a person's impulses are only for business, that's not what a human being is about.

Q: But the odd thing is, if he's doing this because this is the way he started and he wants to help other people, which is not unreasonable, wouldn't you think he'd want to do it personally, and not through his corporation? Take the Asian American Center, for example, it's not done through Computer Associates. But this software incubator is something that Computer Associates, the company, not him, the man, is getting involved in.
A: Well, we haven't completed plans for it. I could talk to you about that after we have a product, but we don't have a product here.

Q: You've said you're involved in discussions here?
A: I'm very much involved. This is something that was initiated because of my interest in being able to do for more companies what we're doing in the incubator now for the biotech companies.

Q: But the ethics commission said you couldn't get involved in any negotiations between Computer Associates and Stony Brook?
A: No. They were talking about if the University was purchasing anything from Computer Associates. I would recuse myself.

Q: It was more than that. It was also if they were to give property or services to Stony Brook. They did say that explicitly, I have it here.
A: There is nothing in the ethics commission about philanthropy -- that says exactly what I just said.

Q: One of the things it says is, "Computer Associates, giving of property or services to SUNY"...
A: No, no. "Possibly seeking to perform new services for SUNY."

Q: The next statement.
A: "e.g. renewal of existing contracts with for-profit corporations, possibly seeking to perform new services for SUNY for-profit corporations, giving of property or services to SUNY," I don't know what this... [sigh] let's see where those parenthesis start. "The condition that she disclose and recuse herself from matters concerning," let's say CA instead of for-profit, "CA or SUNY (e.g. renewal of existing contracts, possibly seeking to perform new services, CA giving of property or services to SUNY?" I don't know what that means.

Q: I obviously have some kind of concern about that.
A: I think you need to ask them what means, because I don't know.

Q: It could be because they expected that if Computer Associates were to give something to the University, then they might expect to get something back. And if it was through you, then it would be interpreted as them buying access to the University. That would be my guess.
A: I'd talked to the people at the ethics commission, I have no idea...

Q: Yes, I have talked to them.
A: What did they say?

Q: I didn't ask them about that statement, but they said any kind of matters between Stony Brook and Computer Associates...
A: Business matters is what they meant, in other words, they're concerned would be that as a member of the board, I would use my role at SUNY to give business to CA. That's what they...

Q: There is also the concern that if you used your role at SUNY to provide research for them, which is what's already happening. There are at least two research projects going on in the computer science department on specifically Computer Associates software, and how to improve it, and things like that.
A: Well, the University does contractual services for a number of corporations in which the corporation pays for the...

Q: So this is a business? They're paying for it?
A: Business done not through SUNY but through the research foundation. I mean, it happens. There are a number of such projects.

Q: But you're involvement in Computer Associates is what raises the question that there might be a conflict of interests.
A: I don't know what this contract you're talking about is, and I don't know if it happened after I came here or before I came here.

Q: It was announced in March 1996.
A: But whatever it is must be done through the research foundation, not through SUNY. SUNY, in other words, the state institute, does not sign on to these kinds of contracts.

Q: This is it.
A: "Donate software and hardware for two state of the art computer learning laboratories..."

Q: That's the first paragraph. If you were to read the whole article then you would see where the concern comes from.
A: The universities look for companies to contribute equipment, particularly in the computer industry, because it is so expensive that otherwise students would not have it.

Q: I'd also like to ask where any kind of facility like this would go.
A: I'm really interested in why you think this is evil, rather than good. I'm really interested. Here is a person, and a company, who is taking a real interest in the local...

Q: I've tried to make that clear in my articles.
A: ...who is not, as most people do, giving to Harvard or Yale, or some more widely perceived as prestigious institution, but who wants to make a strong Long Island, who believes in Stony Brook, who believes in public education. Why do you think that's evil?

Q: What I heard is that there was a faculty member, at least one faculty member in computer science, who told the Statesman that if there was a software incubator, any new software, Charles Wang would get first look at it, and he would be able to take it for himself. There was also the concern that Charles Wang...
A: There is no slave market here!

Q: The fact is that Charles Wang built up his company byŠhe had one product and then he bought a lot of other companies and he got their products, and now they're part of his line. This is what he might do with any new software companies that came out of here.
A: Well, he... Is it something pertinent and good? He might well offer. No company has to accept an offer. They do it because it is advantageous to them. That is why companies merge.

Q: There is also the question of the Asian American Center. Are there any plans to add some kind of facility, put the software incubator in the Asian American Center?
A: Not at this time.

Q: That's not being discussed?
A: No.

Q: There would be some kind of facility for that built somewhere on campus, right? No matter what?
A: If we do a software incubator we would certainly do it on campus, I think, because the advantage of the small product, the new company, of being near a university, or on the campus of a university would be very important.

Q: So where do you think that might be built? You would have to get a ground lease from the state in order to build that, correct?
A: We did with the incubator I think. Before the incubator was even a building there was a incubator here on campus in a building.

Q: So you don't think you would need separate legislation for this?
A: ...

Q: For the software incubator?
A: I can't answer anything for questions I'm not involved in yet. I'm not engaged in... It's premature. It's premature.

Q: How soon do you think the planning will be complete?
A: Well, I hope soon, but it's not now.

Q: What have you discussed already?
A: Oh, you know, I think it's premature to talk about anything that is in the discussion stage until I have something real. When you're in the discussion stage of any product, or any project, you talk about fifty three different possibilities and one rumor gets out. I'll give you an example, there was a rumor that got out, because it probably came up in a meeting about using the commuter lounge in the library for space for commercial stuff. That was in, what, two years ago? It passed through a meeting, and it was out there, and so it exists, although it's something terrible. Nobody's speaking about that. It's just people looking for plots. So if you talk about some of the possibilities, and they get misunderstood and misused it only makes for mischief.

Q: Do you think it might be better if you were more open about these plans? When there's secrecy, that's when conspiracy theories develop.
A: There's not secrecy, students were on that committee, students are on that committee.

Q: There is secrecy about this. The software incubator.
A: I think you have a strange conspiratorial view of life, ok? Until you have a product, if it's something that involves students, students are certainly on the committee, if it's something that involves faculty, then faculty are on the committee. The possibility of a software incubator does not involve students, it is a faculty matter. And, I think because you don't announce anything before you have something to announce doesn't mean you're conspiratorial. I talk about a lot of different possibilities, many of which never happen, because you've got to pick the most important thing, we do not have the financial base to do every good idea out there, we have to do the most important, most urgent method. One example is that we consider the student activities center the most important. We're going ahead with that building, we did a lot of building. We got a lot of plans, but they're not going to happen until we have money for it, but that is a high priority, so we're going ahead to get phase two as quickly as we can, we're going ahead with the stadium, because we consider that an important priority. All of these things have involved all of the people who were stakeholders. It's not a plot. It's not that if I have an idea, I need to call you and say I have a good idea, you're a reporter, you need to find out what's going on, that's the way it works. But it's not that thinking about, planning, blue-skying about the university is conspiratorial.

Q: Unless it's illegal. It depends how you interpret the ethics committee report.
A: Well, I assure you, I would never to do anything illegal, or immoral. I don't even run stop lights.